Senate Proceeding on May 20th, 2009 :: 0:13:25 to 0:36:45
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0:13:24 to 0:13:45( Edit History Discussion )

Lindsey Graham: marity leader, and the final 60 minutes divided equally with senators permitted 10 minutes each with five minutes controlled by the senator from hawaii, senator inouye. the senator from south carolina. a senator: thank you, mr. president. i would like to associate myself with the comments of the

0:13:25 to 0:36:45( Edit History Discussion )
Speech By: Lindsey Graham

0:13:46 to 0:14:08( Edit History Discussion )

Lindsey Graham: minority leade bay. it does protect our national interest. it is probably the best-run military prison in the world. i have been there several times into the guard force and those serving at guantanamo bay, in many ways you're the unsung heroes in this war because it's tough duty. you have to go through a lot to be a member of the guantanamo

0:14:09 to 0:14:30( Edit History Discussion )

Lindsey Graham: bay guard team and they do a wonderful job. it is a very geneva convention compliant jail and there are some pretty bad characters down there who make life miserable for our guard force. those who serve at guantanamo bay to so with a dignity and pr federalism. and their motto is, i believe, honor bound and that certainly reflects upon them well.

0:14:31 to 0:14:51( Edit History Discussion )

Lindsey Graham: now the idea of the congress saying that we want to plan before we appropriate money to close guantanamo bay makes a lot of sense to me. you see a bipartisan movement here to make sure that we know what we're going to do with the detainees housed at guantanamo bay. the american people should be rightly concerned about how we

0:14:52 to 0:15:12( Edit History Discussion )

Lindsey Graham: dispose of these prisoners. quite frankly, they're not common criminals accused of robbing a liquor store, they're a member of al qaeda or allied groups and their mission an purpose is to -- and purpose is to destroy our way of life and

0:15:13 to 0:15:33( Edit History Discussion )

Lindsey Graham: to put our allies and friends in the middle east into the dark ages. so if you do not want to go back into the dark ages in termsf humanity, if you want young girls to grow out without having acid thrown in their face, then we need to come up with a rational policy regarding fighting al qaeda.

0:15:34 to 0:15:55( Edit History Discussion )

Lindsey Graham: and once we catch them, how to dispose of their cases and make sure that they're not only fairly treated, but their mission and their goals are defeated, and they do not return to the fight. we have seen in iraq that there are muslim populations that do not want to be part of the al qaeda agenda. al qaeda followed us to iraq because they understood if we

0:15:56 to 0:16:16( Edit History Discussion )

Lindsey Graham: were successful there, creating a democracy in the heart of the mideast, it would be a threat to their agenda. iraq has a ways to go, but i'm very proud of the iraqi people. they have come together. they're making political reconciliations. their army and police force is getting stronger. and the story of the surge is that the iraqi people joined

0:16:17 to 0:16:37( Edit History Discussion )

Lindsey Graham: with our forces and coalition forces and delivered a mighty blow against al qaeda. al qaeda, quite frankly, is in the process of being defeated by the iraqi people with our help. now the fight goes to pakistan and afghanistan. i cannot think of a more noble cause than to take up arms and fight back against these

0:16:38 to 0:16:59( Edit History Discussion )

Lindsey Graham: terrorists who ill, who will do anything in the name of their religion to have their way, who would make life miserable for parts of this world and eventually make life miserable for us. just imagine a caliphate being established in baghdad, which was their plan, to put the

0:17:00 to 0:17:20( Edit History Discussion )

Lindsey Graham: mideast in constant turmoil. you would not be able to travel freely in this world. you couldn't interact or do business with the people in that part of the mideast. it's a very oil-rich region. so it is in our national security intests to stand with moderate people in the mideast and other places where al qaeda attempts to take over and fight

0:17:21 to 0:17:41( Edit History Discussion )

Lindsey Graham: back. but when we fight back, we don't have to be like them. quite frankly, if we are like them when we fight back, we'll lose. this is an ideological struggle. there is no capital to conquer, no navy to sink or air force to shoot down. we cannot kill enough of the terrorists to win the war. what we have to do is contain them, fight them, and empower

0:17:42 to 0:18:02( Edit History Discussion )

Lindsey Graham: those who live in the region, who want to live a different way, give them defend themselves and to bring about a stable life within their countries. that's what we're trying to do in iraq. and if we win in iraq, you'll have a democracy in the heart of the arab world that will be an ally to this country in perpetuity.

0:18:03 to 0:18:24( Edit History Discussion )

Lindsey Graham: you will have replaced a dictator named saddam hussein, and you'll have a place where you can show the world that there are muslims who do not want to be governed by the al qaeda agenda. and to me, that is a major win in the war on terror. now we're in afghanistan, we've lost ground but we're about to recapture that ground to the

0:18:25 to 0:18:46( Edit History Discussion )

Lindsey Graham: taliban, which are al qaeda sympathizers and allowed them to operate in afghanistan early, late in the last century, early in this century to plan the attacks of 9/11. that's why we're fighting. that's why we're in this discussion. that's why we're concerned about releasing these prisoners within the united states. and that's why we're concerned about guantanamo bay. we have eve right and reason

0:18:47 to 0:19:07( Edit History Discussion )

Lindsey Graham: to be concerned as to how we move forward. now, i want to move forward. we need a plan to move forward, and we should not close guantanamo bay until we have a comprehensive, detailed legal strategy as to what we will do with these prisoners. where we put them is only possible if people know what we

0:19:08 to 0:19:28( Edit History Discussion )

Lindsey Graham: will do with them. you have to explain to the american people and our allies the disposition plan. what are we going to do with these detainees? then where you put them becomes possible. without what to do, you're never going to find where to put them. i do believe that the president and our military commanders are right when they say it's time to

0:19:29 to 0:19:50( Edit History Discussion )

Lindsey Graham: start over. it is a shame that we're having to start over, because guantanamo bay is a well-run jail. but as i mentioned before, this ideological struggle that we're engaged in, the enemy has seized upon the abuses at abu ghraib, the mistakes at guantanamo bay. and they use that to our detriment.

0:19:51 to 0:20:11( Edit History Discussion )

Lindsey Graham: they inflame populations in the mideast based on our past mistakes. and our commanders have told me to a person that if we could start over with detention policy and show the world that we have a new way of doing business, a better way of doing business, it would improve the ability of our troops to operate in the regions in question where the conflict

0:20:12 to 0:20:32( Edit History Discussion )

Lindsey Graham: exists. it would undercut the enemy. it would help allies -- our allies be more helpful to us, our british friends are the best friends you could hope to have, and they have had with our detainee policy. so we've got every reason in the world to want to start over, but the congress is right not to allow us to start over until we have a plan.

0:20:33 to 0:20:53( Edit History Discussion )

Lindsey Graham: the congress, in a bipartisan fashion, is absolutely keep guantanamo bay open until we have a complete plan. and i do believe this president understands how to move forward with guantanamo bay. the best way to move forward, in my opinion, is to collaborate with the congress. look at the military commission system, which i think is the

0:20:54 to 0:21:15( Edit History Discussion )

Lindsey Graham: properenue to dispose of any war crimes trials. remember, these people that we're talking about have been accused of against the united states. they're noncitizen, enemy combatants who represent a military threat. military commissions have been used to try people like this for hundreds of years. we did trials with german

0:21:16 to 0:21:38( Edit History Discussion )

Lindsey Graham: saboteurs who landed on the east coast of the united states with the purpose of sabotaging our industries. they were captured and tried in military commissions. so there's nothing new about the idea of a military commission being used against an enemy force. but i do think the president is right to reform the current commission. i along with senators mccain,

0:21:39 to 0:21:59( Edit History Discussion )

Lindsey Graham: warner and others, senator levin, we had a bill that set up a military process that received complete democratic support on the armed services committee and four republicans. i think that document is worth going back to. and the ideas the president put on the table about reforming the commission, quite frankly, make a lot of sense to me. we do need to move forward. we do need to start over.

0:22:00 to 0:22:20( Edit History Discussion )

Lindsey Graham: if we could start over with a new detention policy that's comprehensive, it would help war effort. it would help operations in the countries in question, in the mideast at large. it would repair damage with our allies. and, quite frankly, we've lost a lot of court decisions. it would give us a better chance to win in court. what do i mean by starting over? come up with a disposition plan

0:22:21 to 0:22:41( Edit History Discussion )

Lindsey Graham: that understands that the detainees at guantanamo bay represent a military threat and ap with their cases. that means you have to treat them humanely. the geneva convention now applies to detainees held at guantanamo bay based on a 2006 supreme court decision. we're bound by that convention

0:22:42 to 0:23:02( Edit History Discussion )

Lindsey Graham: becausee're the leader of the convention. we have signed up to the convention as a military lawyer for 25 conventions near and dear to my heart, as every military member does, because it will provide protections to our troops in future wars. and, yes i know al qaeda will not abide by the conventions.

0:23:03 to 0:23:24( Edit History Discussion )

Lindsey Graham: but, quite frankly, that is n excuse for us to abandon what we believe in. when you capture an enemy prisoner, it becomes about you, not them. they don't deserve much, but we have to be americans to win this war. and there are plenty of people in this world that will cut your head off without a trial. i want to show the world a better way. and how we dispose of these prisoners can really help us in

0:23:25 to 0:23:45( Edit History Discussion )

Lindsey Graham: the overall ideological struggle. so what i am proposing is that we come up with a comprehensive plan that will reform the military commissions, that the president come back to the congress, and we have another shot at the commiions to make them more due process friendly. but we realize that the people we're trying are accused of war crimes, and we apply the law of armed conflict.

0:23:46 to 0:24:06( Edit History Discussion )

Lindsey Graham: i've been a military lawyer, as i said, for 25 years. the judges and the jurors and the lawyers that would administer judges in the military commission setting are the same people that administer justice to our own troops. it is a great legal forum. you have rights in the military legal system. you get free legal counsel. usually cost is not an object.

0:24:07 to 0:24:27( Edit History Discussion )

Lindsey Graham: the men and women who wear the uniform, who serve as afrbgdz take a lot of pride in -- afrbgds take a lotf -- judge advocates take a lot of pride. you've seen verdicts, the few verdicts we've had at guantanamo bay indicates that our juries are rational. our military jurors do hold the

0:24:28 to 0:24:49( Edit History Discussion )

Lindsey Graham: prosecution to the standards of proof, and they balance the interest of all parties. like i say, i've never been more impressed with the legal system than our military justice and military commissions need to be as much like a court-martial as possible, but practicality dictates some differences. and the one thing, under the

0:24:50 to 0:25:11( Edit History Discussion )

Lindsey Graham: geneva needs to understand, that it is a legal -- under the geneva convention i an enemy prisoner in civilian court. why is that? you're afraid that civilian justice, jurors and judges will have revenge on their mind. they're not covered by the geneva convention. participants in a military commission are covered by the convention.

0:25:12 to 0:25:35( Edit History Discussion )

Lindsey Graham: every lawyer, every judge, every juror. they have an obligation to hold to the tenets of the convention, and any misconduct on their part in a trial could actually result in prosecution to them or disciplinary action. thatould not be true in the civilian world. having these trials in a military commission setting is the proper venue because they're accused of war crimes.

0:25:36 to 0:25:57( Edit History Discussion )

Lindsey Graham: having the trials in military commissions is consistent with the geneva convention. it is a world-class justice system. and, quite frankly, it's the best place to balance our national security interests. but to the hard part. we can do that, we can reform the commissions. and some of these detainees can be repatriated back to third countries in a way i think is rational and will not hurt our

0:25:58 to 0:26:18( Edit History Discussion )

Lindsey Graham: national security interest. but there is going to be a group of detainees -- maybe half or more -- that t sound and certain that they're a member of al qaeda, but it's not of the type that you would want to go to a criminal trial with. it may have third-country intelligence service information where the third country would

0:26:19 to 0:26:39( Edit History Discussion )

Lindsey Graham: not participate in criminal trial because it would compromise their operations. some type evidence would be such that you would not disclose it in a criminal trial because it would compromise national security. and you have to remember, when you try someone criminally, you have to prove the case beyond a

0:26:40 to 0:27:01( Edit History Discussion )

Lindsey Graham: reasonable doubt. you have to go through the rigors of a criminal prosecution. under a military commission people are presumed innocent, and that's the way it should be. i want america to understand that we're not charge everyone as a war criminal. we're making the that you're a member of al qaeda. in military law, what you have to do, if you're accusing someone of being part of the

0:27:02 to 0:27:23( Edit History Discussion )

Lindsey Graham: enemy force, is prove by a preponderance of the evidence that you are in fact a part of the enemy force. so what i would propose is to set up a hybrid system. for every detainee once determined to be an enemy combatant by our military or c.i.a., there will be a process to do that -- a combat status review tribunal.

0:27:24 to 0:27:48( Edit History Discussion )

Lindsey Graham: and we need to improve that process. you run each detainee through that process. if the military label them as an unlawful enemy combatant, member of al qaeda, we'll do something we've never done in any other war. that's allow that detainee to go into federal court. under article 5 of the geneva convention, status determinations are made by the military, not civilian judges.

0:27:49 to 0:28:10( Edit History Discussion )

Lindsey Graham: and it's usually done by an independent military in an administrative setting. this war is different. there will never be an end to th we'll never have a signing on the missouri like we did in world war ii. i realize that. an enemy combatant determination could be a de facto life sentence. i'm willing to build in more due process to accommodate the

0:28:11 to 0:28:31( Edit History Discussion )

Lindsey Graham: nature of this war. so what i propose is every detainee determined to be an military combatant by our military would go to a federal judges with uniform standards whe the government would have to prove to an independenjudiciary by a preponderance of the evidence enemy combatant. and if our civilian judges who are trained in reviewing

0:28:32 to 0:28:52( Edit History Discussion )

Lindsey Graham: evidence agrees with the military, that person can be kept off the battlefield as long as there's a military threat. about 12% of the detainees released from guantanamo bay have gone back to the fight. the number-two al qaeda operative in somalia is a former gitmo detainee. it is true, we put people in gitmo, in my opinion, where the

0:28:53 to 0:29:13( Edit History Discussion )

Lindsey Graham: net was cast too large and they were not properly identified. you're going to make mistakes. what i want to do is have a process that our nation could be proud due process. an independent judiciary checking and balancing the military but never losing sight that the goal is to make sure that the determination of enemy combatant is well-founded. and if it is, not to release

0:29:14 to 0:29:34( Edit History Discussion )

Lindsey Graham: people back to the fight knowing they're going to go back and kill americans. that doesn't make us a better nation to have a process where you have to the evidence is sound and clear they're going to go back to the fight. that does not make us a better people. that is stupid. and you do not have to do that under the law of armed conflict. so let's come up with a new

0:29:35 to 0:29:56( Edit History Discussion )

Lindsey Graham: system that will give detainee a full and fair hearing in federal court. if they're tried for war crimes, put them in a new military commission and every verdict would be appealed to our civilian judges. let these trials be as transparent as let's balance national security against duerocess. but never lose sight of the fact that we're dealing with people

0:29:57 to 0:30:19( Edit History Discussion )

Lindsey Graham: who have taken up arms against the united states. some of the people are so radical and have been -- their heart has been hardened so much, they're so hate-filled, that it country and the world at large to let them go in the condition that exists today. where to put them?

0:30:20 to 0:30:42( Edit History Discussion )

Lindsey Graham: mr. graham: 400,000 german prisoners and japanese prisoners were housed in the united states during world war ii. 15% to 20% according t the historical record were hardened nazi. a har the pecking order when it comes to mass murder. the idea that we cannot find a

0:30:43 to 0:31:03( Edit History Discussion )

Lindsey Graham: place to securely house 250-plus detainees within the united states is not rational. we have done this before. they're not 10 feet tall. but it is my belief that you need a plan before you close gitmo. and when you look at a new facility, it needs to be run by the military, but under the

0:31:04 to 0:31:24( Edit History Discussion )

Lindsey Graham: geneva convention, you cannot house enemy prisoners in civilian jails. i loo the president of the united states to start over. but we need a plan, mr. president, to start a plan to try these people consistent with the law of armed conflict in a military commission that is reformed that will administer justice fairly and balanced, but also will realize that these people

0:31:25 to 0:31:46( Edit History Discussion )

Lindsey Graham: present a military threat. we need a system to allow us to keep off the battlefield committed jihadist that's will allow them to have their day in court with an independent judiciary, but also will allow a process to keep them off the battlefield as long as they're dangerous. and if the judge agree with the military and enemy combatant, you should have an annual review

0:31:47 to 0:32:07( Edit History Discussion )

Lindsey Graham: process to determine whether or not if you present a military threat. no one should be held without a pathway forward, but no one should be released because you think this is a crime we're dealing. with if you criminalize this war an conflict, you're going to make huge mistakes. there are countries that have terrorist suspects in jail right now that are about to have to

0:32:08 to 0:32:29( Edit History Discussion )

Lindsey Graham: release them because under criminal law you cannot hold a person indefinitely without trial. nor should you. but under military law you can hold the enemy force off the battlefield if they're properly identified as part of the enemy force if they're part of the military force. that is the law for hundreds of years. wher important. but it's more important as to

0:32:30 to 0:32:50( Edit History Discussion )

Lindsey Graham: what we do with them, how we try them, how we detain them. we have a chance to show the world there's a better way. we have a chance to showcase our values. yes, give them put the evidence against them under scrutiny. make -- put burdens on ourselves. make us prove the case, not just say it's so. make us prove in a court

0:32:51 to 0:33:12( Edit History Discussion )

Lindsey Graham: appropriate for the venue we're talking about, appropriate for the decisions that we're about to make. treat them humanely because that's the way we are. that may not be the way they are. but that's the way we are. and that makes us better t them. the fact that we will do all of these things and they won't is a

0:33:13 to 0:33:33( Edit History Discussion )

Lindsey Graham: strength of thisation, not a weakness. and some people in the past have lost sight of that. the fact that we give them lawyers based on the trial and evidence not based on passion makes us stronger. and we will find a better way to do what we he been doing in the past. we will find a way to close gitmo.

0:33:34 to 0:33:55( Edit History Discussion )

Lindsey Graham: we will co up with a new plan because we're americans and we're committed to our value system and we're committed to beating this enemy. so i look forward to working with members of this body to come up with disposition plan that will find a new way to try new process to hold them off the battlefield, always operating within our values that will

0:33:56 to 0:34:16( Edit History Discussion )

Lindsey Graham: allow our commanders the chance to start over in the region and every military commander i've talked to said it would be beneficial to this start over with detainee policy. but they also understand that we're at war and we need to have a national security centric system. as to where we put them, not in my bac yard.

0:34:17 to 0:34:39( Edit History Discussion )

Lindsey Graham: there were six prison camps in south carolina during world war ii. there is a bringing in -- brig in charleston, near the city of charleston, a naval brig. it is not near a population center. the place i have in mind is an isolated part of the united states, if necessary, that will be run by the military with a

0:34:40 to 0:35:00( Edit History Discussion )

Lindsey Graham: secure perimeter that will be operated within the geneva convention requirements that will have a justice system attached to it that will be transparent and open where we can administer justice an and reattach ourselves to the value

0:35:01 to 0:35:23( Edit History Discussion )

Lindsey Graham: we hold so dear. part of war is capturing prisoners. we know what the other side does. let the world know tha america has a better way, a way that will not only make us safe, but help us win this war. in conclusion, mr. president, the goal of this effort to start

0:35:24 to 0:35:44( Edit History Discussion )

Lindsey Graham: over is to undermine the enemy's propaganda that's been used against us because of our past mistakes, allow our allies to me join us in a new way forward. protect us against a vicious enemy that needs to be held off the battlefield, maybe forever. some of these people, literally, are going to die in jail, and that's ok with me.

0:35:45 to 0:36:05( Edit History Discussion )

Lindsey Graham: because i think the evidence suggests that if we ever let them out of jail, they would go back killing americans, our friends, and our allies. i will not shed a tear. the way to avoid getting killed or going to jail forever is don't join al qaeda. and if you make that decision to do so, let it be said that this

0:36:06 to 0:36:26( Edit History Discussion )

Lindsey Graham: nation is going to stand up to you and fight back within our value systems. so some of these people will never see the light of day and that is the right decision. some of them can be released. let's have a process that understands what we're trying to do as a nation. make sure it's national security

0:36:27 to 0:36:45( Edit History Discussion )

Lindsey Graham: oriented, smierk it lives within our sal -- make sure it lives within our value system, but make sure that everything that we do is as a result of a nation that has been attacked by these people. they have not robbed a liquor store. they have tried to destroy our way of life. the legal system i am proposing