Senate Proceeding 10-14-09 on Oct 14th, 2009 :: 3:14:10 to 3:32:25
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3:13:57 to 3:14:18( Edit History Discussion )

Judd Gregg: we go down the road. relative to the health care package, which was reported out of the finance committee, the health care package reported out of the "help" committee, of which i am a member, how they're being pulled together and what the care and for americans generally who are all affected by these bills. you know, this is 16% of our national economy.

3:14:10 to 3:32:25( Edit History Discussion )
Speech By: Judd Gregg

3:14:19 to 3:14:41( Edit History Discussion )

Judd Gregg: there isn't an american who isn't impacted by health care. so when the congress decides to fundamentally change, and that's what's being proposed here, fundamentally change the way that health care is delivered in this country, it will have an impact on everyone and a very significant impact on everyone who has to interface with the health care system in the immediate future.

3:14:42 to 3:15:02( Edit History Discussion )

Judd Gregg: the bill that came out of the -- out of the committee known as the kennedy-dodd committee at the time, which is now the harkin committee, which i'm a member of, was a bill which basically subscribed to the view of a large majority, i think, of the cows democratic -- the house democratic membership, which essentially said that the

3:15:03 to 3:15:23( Edit History Discussion )

Judd Gregg: government should start to take very significant control over country. and, in fact, proposed a public plan -- a plan which would basically put the government allegedly in competion with the private sector, but as we all know, the government isn't a fair competitor because the government doesn't have to play by the same rules as the private

3:15:24 to 3:15:44( Edit History Discussion )

Judd Gregg: sector and would put us on a slippery slope towards what is known as a single payer system or a nationalized system much like you have in canada and england. those systems have some very severe problems. there isn't a whole lot of innovation in those nations in the area of health care. health care isn't of a quality that we have here in the united states, and you have significant

3:15:45 to 3:16:05( Edit History Discussion )

Judd Gregg: delays and in many instances actually rationing where certain people can't get certain treatments becse they are of a certain age or whether they simply don't qualify under the rules that are set up. it's not the type of system we want in this country today. the purpose of health care reform should be to get everybody to make health care insurance affordable to everyone

3:16:06 to 3:16:27( Edit History Discussion )

Judd Gregg: while in the out years reducing the rate of growth of health care costs and allow people who have an insurance policy today to keep their policy. those were the goals which we set off here when we stepped into this arena of trying to chan health care delivery systems in this country. unfortunately, neither the -- i will call it the harkin bill now

3:16:28 to 3:16:48( Edit History Discussion )

Judd Gregg: although it wasn't authored by senator harkin. it was authored by senators dodd and senator kennedy. the bill which i will refer to as the bau accomplish any of those three goals. in fact, in each of those three situations -- let's take, for example, that everybody should be able to have access to affordab health care. the harkin bill as scored by

3:16:49 to 3:17:09( Edit History Discussion )

Judd Gregg: c.b.o. said that approximately of the 47 million people who don't have health care today, approximately 34 million would still not have health care after their bill is fully phased in. the bill which came out of the finance committee varies. we haven't got a final score on it but it looks like it's going to be somewhere in the vinity of about half of the people who don't have alth care today will still not have health care

3:17:10 to 3:17:31( Edit History Discussion )

Judd Gregg: after you finish that bill being phased in. as to the issue of controlling out year costs, neither the harkin bill nor the kennedy bill control out year costs. in fact, the costs go up rather dramatically in the area of health care. and as to the issue of letting people keep their insurance if they like it, no, that doesn't happen either.

3:17:32 to 3:17:53( Edit History Discussion )

Judd Gregg: in fact, millions of -- in numbers according to c.b.o. would have to be -- would migrate off of their private system into a public plan because basically their employer would drop their plan. that's also true, i believe, of the baucus plan although we haven't got a final score on that, but when you set the penalties for an emplor at a

3:17:54 to 3:18:14( Edit History Discussion )

Judd Gregg: level that basically says the employer is fiscally prudent for them to pay the penalty rather than to insure people, many employers are unfortunately going to give up the insurance and push people into the subsidized program which is called the exchange, and thus a lot of people will lose the insurance which they have today which they like. so none of these g

3:18:15 to 3:18:36( Edit History Discussion )

Judd Gregg: by these bills. what do these bills do, especially the baucus bill which has now become the center of attention? well, first off, they create a massive expansion in t the government. now, we're a government today that is running a deficit of of $1.4 trillion.

3:18:37 to 3:18:58( Edit History Discussion )

Judd Gregg: $1.4 trillion this year. that's three times more than we have ever had in the history of this country. $1.4 trillion. it's about 12% of our economy. historically our deficits have been about 3% of our economy. today we're going to run a deficit of $1.4 trillion, 12% of our economy. and that deficit doesn't come down drama

3:18:59 to 3:19:20( Edit History Discussion )

Judd Gregg: we continue to run deficits under president obama's plan prior to this health care bill being passed of approximately approximately $1 trillion a year for the next ten years. average deficits over that ten-year period is between 5% and 6% of g.d.p. and we take the public debt of the united states from 40% of the g product up to 80% of the gross national product.

3:19:21 to 3:19:43( Edit History Discussion )

Judd Gregg: what do all those numbers mean? just numbers thrown up in the air. they aren't numbers thrown up in the air. those are obligations we're putting on our children. that's debt we're running up on our chiren, because we have a government that's so large tay that wean't affor to pay the bills for it. and almost every any note, of any credibility says that when you run deficits

3:19:44 to 3:20:04( Edit History Discussion )

Judd Gregg: that exceed 3% of g.d.p. for a period of of time, or when you take your public debt from 40% up to 80% of g.d.p., you're basically creating an unsustainable situation. you' creating a situation where you can't pay the debts and where your children and where our children and our children's children who are

3:20:05 to 3:20:25( Edit History Discussion )

Judd Gregg: going to be subject to these deficits and these debts will end they -- a government that they can't afford and which will lead inevitably to devaluing the we're already seeing reaction that in the international marketplace. and -- or, probably both, a massive increase in tax burden which reduces productivity and

3:20:26 to 3:20:46( Edit History Discussion )

Judd Gregg: reduces therefore job creation. the are not good scenarios for our kids. it means a lower standard of living when you get right down it for our less opportunity to buy a home. less opportunity to send their children to college. less opportunity to do the things that our generation has been able to do because they are having a -- having to bear such a burden of the federal government. so on top of this

3:20:47 to 3:21:07( Edit History Discussion )

Judd Gregg: which today has already projected to run deficits for as far as the eye can see of a trillion dollars a year, to take the public debt from 40% to 80% of g.d.p., the proposal is that we're going to spend another, when it's fully in, $1

3:21:08 to 3:21:28( Edit History Discussion )

Judd Gregg: on this brand-new entitleme program. and then the almost laughable were it not being presented in such a way that is claimed to be sincere, proposal is that but we're going to reduce the costs of government. a brand-new entitlement is going

3:21:29 to 3:21:50( Edit History Discussion )

Judd Gregg: to be created which costs us approximately $1.8 trillion over a 10-ye period. it scores the first ten years because it's phased in. the first four years they take the revenues in from this bill but they don't start the program. so the numbers are all skewed in those first 10 years. if you look at it in the ten-

3:21:51 to 3:22:12( Edit History Discussion )

Judd Gregg: year trial where the program is fully implemented,t's a a $1.8 trillion cost. so we're going to create this massive expansion of the size of government with these brand-new entitlements being put in place, and in the process grow the government at a rate that it hasn't really been grown in recent history, taking government from about 20% of the

3:22:13 to 3:22:33( Edit History Discussion )

Judd Gregg: g.d.p. up to 23% g.d.p. unsustainable levels. and we're going to claim that we're going to do it while reducing the cost of government, which is absurd on its face, absurd on its face. now, some would argue well, we need to do that in order to take care of health care, and this is revenue neutral because, as a

3:22:34 to 3:22:54( Edit History Discussion )

Judd Gregg: very practical matter, we put in place a cut in of $400 billion and tax increases of $500 billion, and those are going to pay for this over that ten-year period. what they fail to tell you, of course, is when it's fully implemented, neither the cut in medicare nor the tax increases are large enough to meet those

3:22:55 to 3:23:15( Edit History Discussion )

Judd Gregg: numbers. but let's give it the the doubt. let's say for a moment congress is going to cut medicare by $400 billion and take the new entitlement for uninsured citizens in country. give it to uninsured people. and that this congress is ready to raise taxes by $500 billion.

3:23:16 to 3:23:38( Edit History Discussion )

Judd Gregg: let's give that benefit of the doubt to which congress which i know isn't going to happen because, wow, just five years ago i was chairman of the budget committee and i suggested we reduce the rate of growth of medicare. reduce the rate of growth of medicare by about $15 billion and was -- we couldn't get any votes. we couldn't get any votes on the other side of the aisle for that. and they're suggesting that they

3:23:39 to 3:24:00( Edit History Discussion )

Judd Gregg: are going to cut it by by $400 billion? that is what's switch. it doesn't happen. it's a proposal we all know won't occur. but as a practical matter, give them the benefit of the doubt. let's say that they are able to raise close to a trillion dollars in new taxes or spending -- or spending cuts in medicare over the next ten

3:24:01 to 3:24:22( Edit History Discussion )

Judd Gregg: years, recognizing that in the following ten years it's nearly enough. why is that incorrect to have a program that this paid for? well, i'll tell you why. becausthis government is running so much debt, to the extent we're going to use resources like that, we ought to use them to reduce the debt of the country. we shouldn't use them to create

3:24:23 to 3:24:46( Edit History Discussion )

Judd Gregg: a brand-new program on top of a government that's already too large as it is. we know for a fact, we know this medicare has a $34 trillion unfunded m $3trillion. try to think of that. that means we know that we have expenditures in medicare that

3:24:47 to 3:25:07( Edit History Discussion )

Judd Gregg: are medica by $34 trillion. so why on earth would we cut medicare spending by by $500 billion or $400 billion and use that money to create a new program? we should use that money if we're going to take that action -- and some of that action is responsible, but some of it isn't -- take that money

3:25:08 to 3:25:29( Edit History Discussion )

Judd Gregg: and use it to make medicare more sol vent. and if we're going to raise taxes by $500 billion, we're going to tax the rich as the house claims, up taxing middle-class america or we're going to assess special fees against different industries which in this case would be the pharmaceutical industry, the hospital industry, the medical device industry and

3:25:30 to 3:25:50( Edit History Discussion )

Judd Gregg: a variety of other industries. if we're going to do that and we're going to assess people who don't find insurance with a penalty and assess small businesses that don't buy insurance with a shouldn't we use that money to -- shouldn't we use that money to reduce the burden of the debt of this country as it

3:25:51 to 3:26:11( Edit History Discussion )

Judd Gregg: is being driven by the present health care system? not by adding a brand-new entitlement which absorbs all those resources. you know, there are a lot of ways we could do health care reform around here that are much more responsible than is being proposed. the claim, of course, repeatly by the white house and members of the other side is that this bill isn't going to affect people's

3:26:12 to 3:26:33( Edit History Discussion )

Judd Gregg: the people are just going to -- their premiums go up no more than usual. that is so unbelievable on its face. think about this for a minute. this bill suggests that insurance companies are going to have to pick up a massive increase in the cost of insuring

3:26:34 to 3:26:54( Edit History Discussion )

Judd Gregg: people because it's -- for a lot of technical reasons, but basically it sets up a system where not enough people are going to be coming into the insurance pool -- a lot of people will be opting out of it, but not enough people will be coming into the insurance pool to cover the additional costs which insurance is going to have to occur as a result of the very rich, very rich benefits package

3:26:55 to 3:27:15( Edit History Discussion )

Judd Gregg: under this bill and the fact that there's no longer any exclusion. everybody gets covered by insurance. and so on the face of it, insurance companies aren't going to be able to absorb those costs. they are going to need to pass those who will they pass them on to? they will pass them on to the people that pay premiums.

3:27:16 to 3:27:37( Edit History Discussion )

Judd Gregg: then this bill suggests they will put another 20 million people on the medicaid. they will take medicare up to 133% of poverty. we already know that medicaid only pays 60% of the costs of health care. we already know that for the people who are under medicaid today, 40% of their costs is being borne by private -- people who have private insurance, who

3:27:38 to 3:27:59( Edit History Discussion )

Judd Gregg: are paying for not only the cost of their hlth care but for the 40% of health care costs which is not reimbursed under medicaid. so when you add another 20 million people, that goes onto the premiums of the people who are in the private sector. and thus the premiums have to go up because they capital absorb all those costs.

3:28:00 to 3:28:20( Edit History Discussion )

Judd Gregg: d then we know that a large number of people are going to come into the system but not enough to cover the fact that everybody is going to be required to cover it, so there is going to be something called adverse selection, adverse selection here, where folks who basically buy coverage at the last minute because they are suddenly finding they are sick and h

3:28:21 to 3:28:41( Edit History Discussion )

Judd Gregg: pool for very long will be able to do that under this system, and thus drive up the costs of insurance for everybody else. and so we know t prices will go up there. so we know the premiums are going to go up significantly. just common sense tells you that. whether you accept the study done by the insurance companies or just look at what -- you

3:28:42 to 3:29:02( Edit History Discussion )

Judd Gregg: know, i mean it'sike one one make two. it's simply an obvious fact. and then we also know something else. we know under this proposal that the hospitals have agreed to chip in in order to be at the table and not be basically bludgeoned by the committee of jurisdiction, for something like we know that the drug companies

3:29:03 to 3:29:23( Edit History Discussion )

Judd Gregg: have agreed to chip in $80 billion. and we know have agreed to chip in something like $20 billion. and when you add all that up -- all of which gets passed back to the consumer. none of these entities are going to absorb all those costs -- you end up raising the cost of health care. so in the end, people's premiums are going to go up. people who have inrance premiums are going to

3:29:24 to 3:29:46( Edit History Discussion )

Judd Gregg: go up. well, you might say, you know, why would somebody do that? why would somebody drive up the premiums on people? well, i'll tell you why. because the goal here is to basically eliminate private insurance. the goal here is to create a structure where essentially people who get private health

3:29:47 to 3:30:07( Edit History Discussion )

Judd Gregg: care through a private insurance of their employer, usually, will be forced out of that health care into an exchange where there will be a public plan when this is all over. and the government will essentially absorb all insurance. this is not a good idea. this is not a good idea. why isn't it a good idea?

3:30:08 to 3:30:29( Edit History Discussion )

Judd Gregg: because the government, basically in order to control costs, can only do two things. it can limit access or it can control prices. it does not -- i ask for an additional five minutes. the presiding officer: without objection, so ordered. mr. gregg: it can limit access or control prices. either way, it significantly undermines the quality of health.

3:30:30 to 3:30:51( Edit History Discussion )

Judd Gregg: and there are about 200 million people in this country or more, i guess, who already have health care and are fairly comfortab with the health care they're getting under the private system. but they're going to be at deep risk. and there's something else here that's very serious and we have to think about.

3:30:52 to 3:31:12( Edit History Discussion )

Judd Gregg: as you start to put these type of pressures on the system and you start to regulate prices, and you start to regulate access, and you start to regulate reimbursement, and you have the government doing all of this, you start to stifle innovation. you know, a lot of the drugs that come on the market today

3:31:13 to 3:31:34( Edit History Discussion )

Judd Gregg: come on after a massive period of time of research. i think it averages 12 years, and a huge amount of investment. i think it's $800 million to bring a new drug to the market. well, that $80 appear from out of the sky. and people who are investing money say i'm willing to invest

3:31:35 to 3:31:55( Edit History Discussion )

Judd Gregg: in that drug because i think that it will work and it will do social good. but i also think i'm going to get a reasonable return on my investment. but if you set autopsy system where you have price controls -- set up a system where you have price controls and the price is artificially low because you

3:31:56 to 3:32:17( Edit History Discussion )

Judd Gregg: don't allow people to get a return on their costs, then the moy won't go into those research activities. the money will go somewhere else. it will go into new software. it will go into new machinery. it will go into real estate ventures where the return is better. and so you inevitably chill the investment in innovation,

3:32:18 to 3:32:27( Edit History Discussion )

Judd Gregg: especially in the area of pharmaceuticals, which is where most of the great research is being done today that's making health care -- better health